Know your value! Chicago actors, Philip Winston and Charles Schoenherr, share their experiences and advice for a successful career in acting

About Philip Winston:
Philip has spent over 20 years acting on stage and in film.  Philip holds his MFA in acting from The Shakespeare Theatre's ACA at George Washington University and is a graduate of the School at Steppenwolf.  He is currently an Adjunct Professor of Theatre and Speech at the City College of Chicago. 

About Charles Schoenherr:
Charles has an active career as a voiceover artist. He has been working on stage and as a successful voiceover artist for more than 20 years. His experience includes commercials, animated series, video games, and industrial films. 

About Productions Plus:
Productions Plus has been providing excellence in brand representation since 1981.  We are the largest SAG-franchised, full-service talent management agency and our niche has been representing Product Specialists for numerous global automotive brands. We represent thousands of actors for TV/Film, print, commercials, product demonstrations, trade shows and auto shows.

We are excited to launch our new podcast which will feature several of our employees, talent and brand partners chatting about what we do best- connecting people and brands!

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Transcript

Joe Stearns  0:00  
Hello, welcome to the productions plus Podcast. I'm Joe Starnes. I've worked with productions plus for many years. I was also the founder and artistic director of signal ensemble Theatre in Chicago for 14 years. I'm an actor, a producer, and talent agent. We're here to talk about the Industry, the Arts, and everything in between. Thank you for joining us. Hello, welcome to the production's plus podcast. This is your host, Joe Stearns, and I am here today with two veteran Chicago theater actors. Veteran sounds old, I should say experienced. So we have Mr. Phillip Winston, can I ask you to introduce yourself, please?

Philip  0:47  
Hi, I'm Philip Winston. Yeah, you want me to say a little bit about myself. I've been acting professionally in Chicago for over 20 years. And mostly stage work, but I've done a lot of on camera work as well. And we'll talk more about my background. Right?

Joe Stearns  1:05  
Absolutely. And also Mr. Charles Shane here. Can you introduce yourself, please?

Charles  1:10  
Hi, I'm Charles Shane. Here I have been doing performing in Chicago for over 20 years, predominantly stage and over the last decade, mostly voiceover, done a little bit of on camera, but really focusing more on the voiceovers for about the past decade.

Joe Stearns  1:26  
So let's start by getting into that what got you into doing voiceover work.

Charles  1:33  
I studied at the University of Illinois in Champaign Urbana, graduated in 2000. And prior to studying in that studio program, I worked at the radio station in my small town. I grew up in a small town in middle of center Central Illinois. There were no college colleges within an hour and a half drive. So they hired high school students minimum wage in 1995 93 was somewhere in there was 425 an hour. I worked

Joe Stearns  2:00  
minimum wage in 1994. I think it was 495 an hour. Okay,

Charles  2:05  
so maybe it's a little bit maybe, yeah. But I was 15. And I had to get a special, you know, work release thing, being a freshman in high school and I had an FCC license before I had a driver's license. Well, that's nice. That's I was feel kind of proud to be able to say that. But when I was in college, I had a professor I studied acting, and one of my professors, Rick Barrows had said to everybody, the odds of you making it as an actor are very, very small. The ads of the ads, and there's by Chicago, the odds of you being able to support yourself as a performer are almost as small

Philip  2:41  
so he could for his department. Well, he was what he was true. I

Charles  2:44  
did. Yeah. And I think it's good to

Joe Stearns  2:47  
be honest. Because it is true.

Charles  2:50  
But he encouraged each one of us to find something that we loved, not a day job, not a secondary job or something that we could just, you know, tolerate doing well, we tried to make a life in the arts, he said, You need to find something that you truly enjoy, and you're good at and you enjoy, so that you have something to live for. And you're not kind of pushing towards this, you know, this balloon that may pop. And because I worked in radio for four years, and by the time I was about sophomore, junior in college, he got to know my voice and the way I did it, he said, you know how to use your voice as an instrument. Have you ever thought of voiceovers and I said, What's that? And he was completely introduced me to the field of voiceovers. And that's why when I moved to Chicago in Oh, two may of Oh, two actually a couple days from my anniversary. Yeah, I immediately hit the ground running and want to get into voiceovers.

Joe Stearns  3:39  
What kind of work do you do? As voiceover actor?

Charles  3:42  
Predominantly, I'm doing industrial work. I'm doing commercials like radio and TV commercials, some some on air or some internet? Things. I just landed my first animated series back in October. It's a dub. So I'm doing the English dub for a children's animated series that is in Saudi Arabia. So it's an Arabic. I've done a couple of video games. I've done a slot machine. But yeah, I haven't gotten into the audiobooks yet.

Joe Stearns  4:12  
And how did you get professionally involved in it? What sort of submission process or getting a process of getting an agent did you have to go through?

Charles  4:24  
From what I had read? And again, I'm coming at it from you know, 2001 2002, from the books I've read, and what I've looked into is that you have to get your demo first. And the demo at that point was a considerable investment. Also, you had to have CDs press. Oh, that's charming. Yeah, you had to have art that went with those CDs and postcards and such. And so I ended up working with somebody here in Chicago who was no longer no longer working, but she had a school and a voiceover production service. So she did voiceover training. And she also did the other end, she wouldn't produce your your demo until you took some of the classes. And so I came in, I came in to the to do the class and I did an observation I kind of sat in on one. And then the second one we did the class. And after the class, she said, Hey, cow, nevermind, well, let's just do your let's just do your demo. And so, yeah,

Joe Stearns  5:22  
that's kind of if you were to submit right now, today, what would you do?

Charles  5:27  
I would, I would actually highly encourage people reaching out to casting agencies and asking, What are you looking for? What is it that's needed? Sure. But even before that, I would go to different casting agents, websites and look at their they will post the reels, you know, just like the names and then a little play within the website and listen to what's being used right now.

Philip  5:50  
Sorry, are you going directly to the casting agents? Or does your agent get you in touch with Carson?

Charles  5:55  
Oh, no, my agent does all that is really okay. Oh, no. But I would say today, if I were, if I were getting into it, I would say first off, listen to commercial, well listen to what it is you're going to be doing, whether it's audiobooks, or it's, you know, radio, commercials, TV, those sorts of things, like just really sit down and listen to what is what's going on right now, you know, back in the day used to be the old white man's club. And that is no longer the case. And that's, I'm fine with that. No, nor should it be exactly. But it you know, it, I would encourage I'm sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself, but anybody who's bilingual? Oh, boy. Yeah, that's, that's always been a huge draw. Because you know, why pay two people and rent the studio for twice as long when you can pay one person one and a half time, right? And get it all cranked out in one. But I would say listen to what's out there, go to a casting agent, or sorry, not casting talent agencies I misspoke. Go to the talent agencies websites and listen to their, you know, go to the voiceovers listen to their their talent, and what they're doing. And then And then, you know, reach out, reach out to an agent or two in the area that you're in and say, What do you recommend, like what's the best way because there are a lot of people who be very happy to take your money and give you magic beans, and return. There are a lot of people out there doing that. So I would say just go to the people who are going to potentially help you get a job or give you a job and ask what they want what they're looking for. Because Youtube, and the internet is just full of people. And even some people here in Chicago, who would be like, Oh, you need classes? You need this, you need that. And next thing, you know, you've pretty much you know, put as much as you'd buy for a small family vehicle. And you really no further.

Joe Stearns  7:41  
Yeah, well, thank you for that. Philip, can we talk about a little about what you do? You're a teacher? I'm a teacher, what made you want to teach acting?

Philip  7:52  
Who? You turned my question on me? Talk about whatever you want to so i want No, I'm joking. So I wanted to become an actor. I always had this idea that as an actor, you can influence people's worlds. And like we can make the world a better place by telling stories. Like we were just talking about that. And, and hopefully open up people's minds about different people, different relationships themselves, all these different things. But as an actor, you don't get as much. You don't have as much saying what kind of story you get to tell right? Like you get called into auditions. And directors, casting directors, everybody decides what Where are you going to fit,

Joe Stearns  8:37  
right? You're not a playwright, if you're an author, you get to decide what you're going to write a painter, you get to decide what you're going to paint as an actor, it's your job to interpret a story that exists exactly.

Philip  8:47  
So I figured I could have more influence as as a teacher, when I went to grad school, you know, I got out of grad school, and I was enjoying acting quite a bit. But I wanted to have more of an influence on people. So I started coaching actors helping them get into their schools. And then I started teaching communications classes, right, I teach public speaking classes to people that go into all different, all different careers. So using the skills I have as an actor, to empower a much larger group of people with with basically storytelling skills. But yeah, I still think that that acting is just an incredible art. It's a great way to explore, you know the world around you, but also just explore yourself and learn more about yourself than you ever could shirt. Yeah.

Joe Stearns  9:41  
This is sort of a deep question, but what is acting? Why do we do theater? This is for both of you.

Philip  9:49  
I think it's just that what I just said is it's

Joe Stearns  9:51  
storytelling storytelling. And I think we were talking before about storytelling is one of the most important things we can do.

Philip  9:58  
I think it's the way you that you connect with everybody around the world and society around you. And it creates society really like, the stories we tell create the reality we live in. Right, like, so. Actors have immense power, whether you realize it or not. Yeah,

Charles  10:17  
no, I wholeheartedly agree. And I said this earlier, but you know, I had a similar question at a, at an interview for a very presentational job I used to have I worked at the aquarium hosting the shows with dolphins and whales. And somebody asked me in the interview process, you know, why do you want to do this? Or what is it that so important about storytelling, because I mentioned that storytelling was important to me, which is what acting is, and, you know, I, to paraphrase from that one, little sci fi play that, you know, we are just little meat, you know, we're a little fat computers, piloting meat suits around and the way that we interact with each other is, you know, we bring in air through our lungs and forced them out and flap the meat, which is our, you know, our mouths and jaws and, and throat, and through the air, we are able to take ideas, and verbally or visually present them to other people. And as far as I'm concerned, like you said, storytelling, that's it is, as far as I'm concerned, the most primal and basic and effective way of communicating. That you can communicate, how you feel, or how a person would feel or how someone feels or how something affects a person. And through that you can open people's minds to different ways of thinking of living of being.

Philip  11:35  
So. So I said that I teach communications classes, and one of my favorite things to talk about in my acting and my, my communications classes is it's just the basic definition of communication is this, it's sending and receiving verbal and nonverbal messages. But the best part of the definition is the last part to create shared meaning. So that's what you're doing all the time is you're creating a shared meaning amongst other one other person or a group of people. Right. And that's what acting does it helps create the shared meaning this understanding of a situation or other beings. That's what I'd say it is.

Charles  12:10  
Absolutely. I think, you know, that the bar out or what? When, when I was a kid there, I remember we had family over it was must have been the holidays and there was a TV movie with Lucille Ball and Brooke Shields. And Brooke Shields was a young girl living in New York City and she encountered this homeless woman played by Lucille Ball, and spoilers. At the end, Lucille Ball's character gets sick and dies because she's out in the elements. And I as a child, I was inconsolable. I mean, where we lived. I don't think at that point I'd ever seen anybody homeless. It wasn't something that I had encountered. And just this this, this, I haven't even gone back to see it. Because I'm afraid if I saw it, I'd be like, that made you cry. But I mean, like, I literally like I had a meltdown as a kid. And I remember there were, you know, friends visiting, staying at our house, and my mom was like, Okay, you're too tired. Now. But, you know, that was just a TV movie on CBS. And the idea that, you know, as a kid, I don't even know if I had a concept of, of homelessness.

Joe Stearns  13:19  
Yeah, that's interesting. Those are all really great points. And I completely agree. I love to talk a little bit about just the professional aspects of being an actor. But what do you wish you would have known before you started,

Philip  13:37  
you don't have to work for free. You don't have to do it. And the more you work for free, the more people will expect you to work for free and expect other people to work for free. Have some standards, it is it's a profession, it deserves more respect than that lens that I'd say.

Joe Stearns  13:58  
That's a high five between

Philip  13:59  
those two gentlemen don't really aren't deserves more respect, you deserve more respect. And, and it's, and you'll hear people say constantly, like, well, well, we just don't have the funding to do this. But we're going to rent this theater for $1,000 A week or something, or whatever it is probably far more than that now, right now. But if, if they're not treating you as professional, and, and you're not, you're not selling out, you're not being a jerk. You're not having to high standards by just wanting to make a living, doing what you've been trained to do.

Charles  14:34  
If you don't value yourself, no one else is gonna value you. And there are plenty in the mindset. And I almost want to give some of those people who make those decisions, a little bit of a pass only in that it's been like that forever. That doesn't mean it's right. You know, that's just like the old you know, the old white boys club with voiceovers it just because it's been this way doesn't mean that it's that it's the way that it should be. But you have to value your self and your time and you know, the same professor again, Rick Barrows used to say, you know, we call it we call it the craft of acting because it is a craft, it's something that you learn you hone over time, and it has value. It has value. And you know, the thing is, you know, they say you to do a play to perform to do plays, play has this, like fun, sort of, you know, it that it's this nebulous sort of, you know, neutral thing that seems to not have value. And the trick, it's not real work, correct, correct. And I, that has really gotten under my skin, the entire 20 plus years that I've been working profession,

Philip  15:39  
I will say that you should have fun doing it. And that's another thing that I would add on to it is, if it's not fun, you shouldn't be doing it. You shouldn't be doing it for free, and you should not be being abused. And like, verbally, certainly not physically, but like, there are a lot of abusive relationships, in education and in, in the in the actual professional world. And you it is not necessarily Yeah, but they will say that, that it is

Joe Stearns  16:09  
you want to make it in this business kid, dude.

Charles  16:12  
I'm sorry, you mentioned education. And I think that's so important, because I've noticed, because I have friends who work professionally, besides yourself, but people who work professionally in education and people who also have oh, boy, hang on, it's just starting to dribble out my year the thought of Okay, so here's the deal. I lost my train of thought, the worst educators I've ever had, were the ones who either decided, I guess I'll do this, I can do this. And the other ones who were the worst educators I ever had, were the ones who had been doing something professionally, whether it's acting, directing, you name it performing. Those are my, my experiences, but there have been some others who then have you as their student, and have to tell you, ad nauseam, without, you know, the minimum once a week, you know, on teaching, but I could be out there doing it. And I had professors like that, where they had to, for their own ego had to justify the fact that they were teaching, as opposed to being out there and performing or directing or whatever it was. And I think because what you said is it, I think it's key to that is that you have to be doing it, that you have to be enjoying it. And I think that that is when it comes to education and also for performance. I think it's key. Because if you lose that and either of those two, you're going to be very ineffective at it terrible.

Philip  17:49  
Yeah, I mean, you have to it. You know, when I when I coach actors, when I'm trying to help them get into schools, or audition for mainly conservatories and stuff, I always ask them, Why do you want to be an actor? Yeah. And, and ask them that every, every time every time we have a session, and see how their answer evolves. Because what I'm trying to get them to do is not make it about themselves. And it has to be about, again, the greater good of of the world are the sounds really big but but if it's about your ego, like are there people that that are successful, it's about their ego, of course there are, but it's not going to be fun for you, and then it's gonna hurt a lot. And you should do something and you should do something else. Yeah. And if if it's about like, serving that, like connection, and and, like, eye opening experiences, like what you said about like homeless people, then then it's gonna be satisfying. But I think that's what happens when you do. When you do it for free, like when you're doing it for free. You're doing it so that you can say you're doing something. And that's one one trap that you get into when you're first starting out as an actor. And that's one thing that I would add to like, what would I we're still on the hole? Yeah, what do you wish he wasn't known, would have known is that I'm there to to hone my craft to become a better actor, I should have not wasted my time doing things I didn't like doing. And I mentioned this calculus that teacher of mine at the school Steppenwolf talked about and it's the three the three things so you do art for these three things because you like the people you're gonna be working with. Because you like the project like the role and or like the movie or whatever it is, or the pay is really good. You have to have one of those three like or two two of those. know you'll get one of them pretty much all the time. Yeah, well, right. Sometimes you don't even get any. And you're still like, well, it's something I'm a resume. That's right. And that's when you make that, yeah, that you have to have those two things. And if you don't have those two things, don't do it. Like don't don't do it. And I worked on so many projects where I didn't have to have those things, or I didn't have any of them. Right. And I never get that time back. That's a you don't get the time back ever get. Is

Joe Stearns  20:22  
that worth it? Did it advance your career? Maybe you network, maybe you make relationships? Yeah. All right.

Philip  20:30  
Yeah. I think I think like, you do have to think of it as a business. And, and you have to take it very seriously, like, you know, getting professional headshots, and like, having, knowing how to how to audition is a whole other thing. That very, you learn very few plays, we can do a whole podcast on how to watch, we should do a whole podcast on audition. But I mean, for what, like it changes for every single project. Yes.

And, and, and then how to make those connections. And we were just talking I,

if I were giving advice to an actor that was starting out, first find out like, what level they were at, so they have any experience at all. In some sort of formal training. If they like, have a BFA or ba, then like, then let's focus on on getting you connected to the community that you're gonna be wanting to act in. And in that case, I'd say take more classes, like with people that are working. And then if, if you have no experience, then you need to get some a little bit of formal training. So you know, the language of the art,

Charles  21:48  
I love you laid it out that way, because I know a couple of younger people. They're not so young now. But when I was young, and they were younger, they came to Chicago and their first thing was getting into all of the social aspects and the networking and stuff. And it was just sort of like, okay, well, you there's a lot of work that needs to come before that. And then you know, burning out and becoming very frustrated that they weren't getting anywhere. And it's sort of like you kind of got the cart before the horse.

Philip  22:16  
Yeah. And you got to be ready when that opportunity shows up. When you get that Steppenwolf audition or that like,

Charles  22:25  
a luck. Luck is when preparedness meets opportunity. Yeah, that's something my father used to say to me all the time. And it's and there been a couple of times where I've been lucky, but also ready.

Philip  22:34  
Yeah, spend those nights where that someone is asking you to work for free, and you don't like the project or they're mean. spend them at home, working on new monologues, like studying scripts, watching artists, like going to see plays, like that's go see or go see movies or like it depends on what medium you're going into to and decide what what it is that you want to do most. You know, I think that's another

Joe Stearns  23:01  
Yeah, great. Um, I'm going to ask one more question. What are some of the most valuable skills you can have as an actor?

Charles  23:11  
I would say it's a combination of resilience and grace. Interesting, because well, okay, I'm going to combine two ideas here. So there was an interview with Michael Keaton not too long ago, where he was referring to how much he detested the auditioning process. And I have had a hate slash tolerate relationship with the the audition. Does

Philip  23:37  
anybody like auditioning? Of course, no,

Charles  23:38  
of course. Somebody's like a frickin masochist. But no, but he said that he there was something and I'm gonna paraphrase if it was something along the lines of like, he had this audition, and I can't, I don't want to audition. I want to do this. And he's like, I'm probably not gonna get it. I don't know this. And something clicked in his brain at some point. And he realized, Oh, I'm not auditioning to have my job. The audition process is my job. Whether or not you get the role, whether or not it's right things pan out, projects fall apart, you name it. But the idea that the auditioning process that is your job. And I think it's easy to lose sight of that, because everybody wants to feel wanted. Everybody wants to feel desired and to succeed and have, you know, positive upward movement the whole time. But that's not how life works. And the other thing about grace and perseverance is that I thankfully had, it pointed out to me earlier on in my career, that you may go and audition for something. And when it's stage, you physically go there. It's not you know, not recording and doing self tape for on camera or voiceover. But you physically go there with your pieces ready, you audition and there are people there, whether it's a rehearsal hall or a stage and there's, you know, people in the darkness or people you know, sitting in the distance from you, and you can walk out of that audition and think wow, yeah, I felt really good. And you may even walk out of that audition and somebody you know, was there or is there and they're just like, hey, great job. That was such a great oh my god, that was awesome. And then you don't get the project.

And it's easy to kind of go like, what did I do wrong? What's wrong? And well, there's so many factors going on that are so out of

Joe Stearns  25:20  
your control specially if someone's casting an ensemble. Precisely. I was just going to work. Yeah. Yeah. Of the who matches all the other actors. Exactly.

Charles  25:28  
And that's where doesn't because the thing is, is that you may think you did a great job. They may think you did a great job, but they're like, Yeah, you know, the ingenue he's playing a love interest. He's playing us opposite. Yes, she's the same height and she's not wearing flats.

Joe Stearns  25:43  
Oh, I remember, an audition with our old company with the ingenue being auditioned was about five inches taller than the lead actor who had already been tasked. Great job, but sorry, it's just not gonna work, you know, aesthetically. Right.

Charles  26:01  
Did she wish she told that? Or did she know that that was just the decision? That was exactly and that's fine, because that's not part of the process is telling them. The other thing is they may think you're fantastic. But they've already cast somebody who looks and sounds very much like you. Colin Milroy, my doppelganger here in Chicago. Oh, both actors. No, I'm just saying like, No, I there is a guy, same age, same everything. And we look like we could be maybe fraternal twin brothers. Right. So it's out of your hands at some point. Philip, do

Philip  26:32  
you have to most valuable skills as an actor? Are you talking about professionally or artistic,

Joe Stearns  26:38  
I guess both anything you have to say? So

Philip  26:41  
I would say professionally, I would say, really strong audition skills, that's like you have to audition skills is really important. And really, the only way to get that is to audition. And like

Joe Stearns  26:53  
and that's that's what I feel like to go on auditions that you know, you're not going to get but but you're just having an experience going on on auditions

Philip  27:03  
that are going to pay you you're not going to be able to get yourself anyway. But you're gonna need an agent for but like, and, and then also, I don't know, take present take care of yourself physically as best you can, like, be healthy about things. But artistically, I think I would say vulnerability, like just being you need to be open to being your most vulnerable self effort. Like that's, that's what it's about is watching vulnerability. That's, that's what the art is. And, and the physical awareness, like I think you would need you need. I'm not a very like, graceful person, but like some sort of, like, take a martial arts class or like a yoga class or something like have a really strong awareness of yourself physically. That's what I'd say. Yeah, my great.

Charles  27:58  
I'd like to piggyback on something that you said. You said about taking care of yourself. I could not agree more. Yeah. You know, the two things that we have in life, when you get down to it are time and health. Yeah. You can't get your time back. And health is very hard to get back once. It's once it's gone. Yeah. And as you mentioned vulnerability, I would also say that emotional health is very important.

Philip  28:20  
Yeah. And I think that's what I was actually thinking about. I only had two.

Joe Stearns  28:25  
No, no, but I think no, I think you're definitely definitely had some acting classes that bordered on or were maybe absolutely direct, like therapy.

Philip  28:35  
But here's what I always say about that. So sorry to cut you out. Yeah. Acting can be therapeutic, but it cannot be your therapy. Like get your own therapist. Like you can't use it as your therapy. Yeah, like, if it's therapeutic, that's great. But then, then again, it's about you and not about other people.

Charles  28:52  
And that's a trap. It's never about you. It's not it's never supposed to be about you. Yeah, and audition, maybe. But beyond that, the whole point of the whole thing is to is to reach other people

Philip  29:01  
share things. Like it's great. Every, every single person on the planet loves to get an applause, right? Like everybody does. But that's if you're doing it for that, that.

Charles  29:14  
No, it's like, but it's like a Zen thing. It's like, if you're doing it for the applause, you're doing it wrong, and it's gonna show and you're just gonna fail. Yeah, but I have to say I'm sorry about the therapy thing. And this you might cut this out, I don't know. But I did a show once many, many years ago, where one of the other main characters in the show turned to me I'm a grown adult man man. Many years my senior just pointed at me across the stage and shattered the top of his lungs. My therapist warned me about paper like yo in the middle of a run through and I just

Joe Stearns  29:45  
What did you do? Well,

Charles  29:47  
I will admit that my head my head was like a slot machine of like funny really, you know, funny mean things to say and part of me just went no, this is somebody in pain. Keep your keep your mouth shut up. And I did. And eventually the director said, Okay, we're gonna we're gonna take 10 He's come with me and like, what can I just I never said anything about it. But yeah, I mean, when you're when you're doing the work, it can bring up stuff.

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